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Is Not Winning Actually The Better Result


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#31 fairycake

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE(mjr @ May 24 2010, 11:41 AM) View Post
But 8 shows is standard! I think with Lee Mead being a proffessional, and having the experience of many shows under his belt before going into Joseph, 8 shows would have been a breeze!
Also 6-8 weeks is the standard rehersal time for a west end show.



ALW got it wrong with TSOM. There was an uproar in the media when it was announced that Connie would only be doing 6 shows a week. Connie was then obliged to do 8. Some performers only do 6.


So in the next ALW show, the performer is bound to have to do 8 shows.

Mmmm what to do????? Joseph is not a big sing. Short rehearsal period & 8 shows a week. Yes, 8 shows for a pro would have been a breeze. Good job Lee won isn't it? rolleyes.gif It makes you wonder why bother with TV casting if in the end, you just get a pro in to do the job. rolleyes.gif Oh and didn't they decide to close Evita earlier than usual?


Next plan...... plan foiled somewhat. Jessie didn't win. Jodie did and got lots of rehearsal time, fewer shows per week and some big names in the cast to 'compensate' when she wasn't on. The same might happen with TWOO.

BTW Does anyone know if performers are invited to audition or do they just see an ad in The Stage?

#32 mjr

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE(fairycake @ May 24 2010, 02:59 PM) View Post
ALW got it wrong with TSOM. There was an uproar in the media when it was announced that Connie would only be doing 6 shows a week. Connie was then obliged to do 8. Some performers only do 6.


So in the next ALW show, the performer is bound to have to do 8 shows.

Mmmm what to do????? Joseph is not a big sing. Short rehearsal period & 8 shows a week. Yes, 8 shows for a pro would have been a breeze. Good job Lee won isn't it? rolleyes.gif It makes you wonder why bother with TV casting if in the end, you just get a pro in to do the job. rolleyes.gif Oh and didn't they decide to close Evita earlier than usual?


Next plan...... plan foiled somewhat. Jessie didn't win. Jodie did and got lots of rehearsal time, fewer shows per week and some big names in the cast to 'compensate' when she wasn't on. The same might happen with TWOO.

BTW Does anyone know if performers are invited to audition or do they just see an ad in The Stage?


Connie was originally only going to do 2-4 performances with emma williams doing the others, when emma left, connie made it entirely clear that she wanted to do all 8, it was not forced upon her.

If they think Danielle is up to it she will do 8.

There was always a long break between the IDA show and Oliver, regardless of who won, there was always going to be a big gap.

#33 My Dog's Name is Sally

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE(fairycake @ May 24 2010, 01:59 PM) View Post
Mmmm what to do????? Joseph is not a big sing. Short rehearsal period & 8 shows a week. Yes, 8 shows for a pro would have been a breeze. Good job Lee won isn't it?



I agree Andrew knew he needed someone who could do 8 shows a week. That's probably why they picked Joseph as it would be easier on the voice than SOM for the winner. Just about every contestant on that show was either fresh out of stage school or had sung professionally in one form or another.

I think it was a plus that they've had as many professionals on these shows as they've had, which is why even the non winners have had success. All of them have had more to offer the West End than just the fame from being on a TV show. Andrew's shows are more showcases than they are talent shows in that way.


Same way, I think we're going to see a lot of Steph and some of the other girls out there.  Danielle's proven herself strong enough in some of these last acting challenges that I don't think she'll get locked into the Dorothy role.

#34 fairycake

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE(mjr @ May 24 2010, 04:44 PM) View Post
Connie was originally only going to do 2-4 performances with emma williams doing the others, when emma left, connie made it entirely clear that she wanted to do all 8, it was not forced upon her.

If they think Danielle is up to it she will do 8.

There was always a long break between the IDA show and Oliver, regardless of who won, there was always going to be a big gap.



The media revealed that Connie was not doing every performance and made a big deal of it. So Connie offered to do all the 8 shows. Emma left by mutual agreement.

QUOTE
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I think it was a plus that they've had as many professionals on these shows as they've had, which is why even the non winners have had success. All of them have had more to offer the West End than just the fame from being on a TV show. Andrew's shows are more showcases than they are talent shows in that way


Professionals or not, I have to agree that it has given performers a greater chance of getting roles. However, you can't escape the fact that a reality TV show gave them the chance. Whether this is still stigmatised, I don't know. I wish Connie would do another WE show. Perhaps ALW has her lined up for TWOO. I think she'd make a good Wicked Witch of the West or Glinda.

I'd love to see a good MT show on TV that isn't a casting show and is better than The Sound of Musicals done by the BBC a few years ago.

#35 My Dog's Name is Sally

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 09:51 PM

QUOTE(fairycake @ May 24 2010, 08:02 PM) View Post
The media revealed that Connie was not doing every performance and made a big deal of it. So Connie offered to do all the 8 shows. Emma left by mutual agreement.



Professionals or not, I have to agree that it has given performers a greater chance of getting roles. However, you can't escape the fact that a reality TV show gave them the chance. Whether this is still stigmatised, I don't know. I wish Connie would do another WE show. Perhaps ALW has her lined up for TWOO. I think she'd make a good Wicked Witch of the West or Glinda.


That stigma is a problem because it can keep someone who has been having trouble breaking through and might benefit from shows where professionals are encouraged to compete from competing.  This dosen't seem to be as big of a problem in Europe, hence the Eurovision contest being taken more seriously over there.  

Contest shows aren't a new phenomenon, they've been going on for quite some time, and they've always come in two flavors, actual talent competitons, and popularity contests, where those who have the better sob story win out over true talent, but they're good for ratings.

They're two different animals, but we've been overloaded with the popularity contests - not saying they haven't occaionally produced some good people - that talent competitions tend to be lumped in with them, which is sad.

#36 mjr

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 09:51 PM

QUOTE(fairycake @ May 24 2010, 09:02 PM) View Post
The media revealed that Connie was not doing every performance and made a big deal of it. So Connie offered to do all the 8 shows. Emma left by mutual agreement.



Professionals or not, I have to agree that it has given performers a greater chance of getting roles. However, you can't escape the fact that a reality TV show gave them the chance. Whether this is still stigmatised, I don't know. I wish Connie would do another WE show. Perhaps ALW has her lined up for TWOO. I think she'd make a good Wicked Witch of the West or Glinda.

I'd love to see a good MT show on TV that isn't a casting show and is better than The Sound of Musicals done by the BBC a few years ago.





Emma didn't leave due to mutual agreement, she left when she relised how much time she would be on stage and sat in her dressing room. Connie Fisher always wanted to do all 8, and there are many interviews where this is stated.

She was in a musical at the Menier, and it didn't sell out, I believe it was the only show of the season there that didn't.
But I don'#t beleive she will be in the WOOZ.
But it will be interesting what move she makes after the SOM tour.
I have nothing against Connie Fisher at all!

#37 fairycake

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 11:02 PM

QUOTE
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That stigma is a problem because it can keep someone who has been having trouble breaking through and might benefit from shows where professionals are encouraged to compete from competing.

Wot?!!

Also the sob stories only work for so long. But as you say they're good for ratings!!


QUOTE(mjr @ May 24 2010, 10:51 PM) View Post
Emma didn't leave due to mutual agreement, she left when she relised how much time she would be on stage and sat in her dressing room. Connie Fisher always wanted to do all 8, and there are many interviews where this is stated.

She was in a musical at the Menier, and it didn't sell out, I believe it was the only show of the season there that didn't.
But I don'#t beleive she will be in the WOOZ.
But it will be interesting what move she makes after the SOM tour.
I have nothing against Connie Fisher at all!



It depends on who you believe. Some reports say it was mutual agreement, some say she quit. I can't think that anyone would want to cause trouble with someone as powerful in MT as ALW. If you were a MT performer, would you risk quitting and attracting bad publicity for one of ALW's shows?

So, I would tend to go with the press & subsequent fuss by Connie about her not appearing in every show and Emma leaving by mutual consent. You say Connie always wanted to do all 8. If that was the case, ALW wouldn't have contracted Emma in the first place would he? It wouldn't make sense.

TWOZ casting was just a bit of speculation!!

#38 mjr

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 11:07 PM

QUOTE(fairycake @ May 25 2010, 12:02 AM) View Post
It depends on who you believe. Some reports say it was mutual agreement, some say she quit. I can't think that anyone would want to cause trouble with someone as powerful in MT as ALW. If you were a MT performer, would you risk quitting and attracting bad publicity for one of ALW's shows?

So, I would tend to go with the press & subsequent fuss by Connie about her not appearing in every show and Emma leaving by mutual consent. You say Connie always wanted to do all 8. If that was the case, ALW wouldn't have contracted Emma in the first place would he? It wouldn't make sense.

TWOZ casting was just a bit of speculation!!


But the oint was, they didn't know who was going to be cast when emma williams was hired, the compition was still going on. When it became clear Connie was the top runner, it became increasingly clear with the advance on the production that people wanted to see Connie. Emma Williams decided this was not the best plan for her.

ALW himself has said this. Because she left doesn't necessarily mean it was on negative grounds, and ALW said himself that he understood that an established performer like Emma Williams, would not want to be hannging around.

#39 fairycake

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 11:48 PM

QUOTE(mjr @ May 25 2010, 12:07 AM) View Post
But the oint was, they didn't know who was going to be cast when emma williams was hired, the compition was still going on. When it became clear Connie was the top runner, it became increasingly clear with the advance on the production that people wanted to see Connie. Emma Williams decided this was not the best plan for her.

ALW himself has said this. Because she left doesn't necessarily mean it was on negative grounds, and ALW said himself that he understood that an established performer like Emma Williams, would not want to be hannging around.




This was the first show. Of course people wanted to see the winner. The production team hadn't accounted for it. However, you insisted Connie wanted to do 8 shows a week, which is different to what you said above!!! When it became clear Connie was the top runner, it became increasingly clear with the advance on the production that people wanted to see Connie. Emma Williams decided this was not the best plan for her.

So if Connie was give 8 shows, Emma was redundant. There was no point in her hanging around!

QUOTE
ALW himself has said this. Because she left doesn't necessarily mean it was on negative grounds, and ALW said himself that he understood that an established performer like Emma Williams, would not want to be hannging around.


Now that doesn't sound like she quit. It sounds like she left by mutual consent.

#40 Matthew Winn

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 05:24 AM

QUOTE(fairycake @ May 25 2010, 12:48 AM) View Post
Now that doesn't sound like she quit. It sounds like she left by mutual consent.

Newspaper reports at the time suggest that there was a bit of both, and the story appears to be as follows.

Emma Williams was originally contracted to do four shows a week as the alternate. As the bookings rolled in it became clear that most of the audience were interested solely in seeing "the girl off the telly", so the alternate's performances were cut to two per week. On top of that, Miss Williams found she was being described - by Andrew Lloyd Webber himself, no less - as the understudy rather than the alternate, and Connie Fisher was saying that there was no need for an alternate at all. It seems that the combination of the breach of contract and what appears to have been constructive dismissal led Emma Williams to feel her position had become untenable, so she quit.

Basically, they'd never done a show like this before and - perhaps na´vely - they hadn't realised how popular the winner would become, so they offered Miss Williams a contract they subsequently found they didn't want to fulfil.
I have always hated eggs. I remember back when I was a sperm I tried to head-butt one. It did not end well.




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